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“Anomalous Phenomena: Exposing the Truth”

House Committee on Oversight and Accountability, Subcommittee on Cybersecurity, Information Technology, and Government Innovation

November 13, 2024 (recording linked here)

HEARING INFORMATION

Witnesses and Written Testimony (linked):

• Dr. Tim Gallaudet: Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy (RET.), Chief Executive Officer, Ocean STL Consulting, LLC

• Mr. Luis Elizondo: Author, and Former Department of Defense Official

• Mr. Michael Gold: Former NASA Associate Administrator of Space Policy and Partnerships; Member of NASA UAP Independent Study Team

• Mr. Michael Shellenberger: Founder of Public

HEARING HIGHLIGHTS

IN THEIR WORDS

SUMMARY OF OPENING STATEMENTS FROM THE COMMITTEE AND SUBCOMMITTEE

• Chairwoman Mace recognized her colleagues for their persistent pursuit of transparency around Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAPs) and noted that high-ranking military and intelligence officials have suggested that UAPs warrant more attention, underscoring the ongoing interactions and historical presence of non-human intelligence, as stated by government officials. She expressed concerns about the Pentagon’s lack of transparency, particularly with the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), and emphasized the need for more information to be made available to the American public. The Chairwoman concluded by entering a 12-page document into the Congressional Record regarding the “Immaculate Constellation” program, a Special Access Program related to UAPs, acknowledging its significance to the proceedings.

• Ranking Member Garcia emphasized the necessity of a fact-based approach to UAP discussions grounded in national security. He acknowledged the growing number of UAP sightings that remain uncharacterized and attributed, as reported by AARO, and stated the American public deserves answers based on transparency, science, and facts. He also underscored the need for Congress to address the lack of a confidential reporting method for civilian pilots encountering UAPs, as discussed in previous sessions.

• Chairman Grothman recalled the last hearing where former military personnel, including Navy Commander David Fravor, shared firsthand experiences with UAPs. He noted that despite continuous questioning, some UAP claims remain unsubstantiated, and the new procedures by the Joint Chiefs for UAP reporting represent progress. He emphasized the importance of transparency, better interagency collaboration, and updated policies to address emerging threats from UAPs, particularly near military sites. The Chairman concluded by expressing hope that today’s hearing would yield actionable insights for advancing UAP transparency.

• Rep. Moskowitz highlighted past legislative efforts, such as the creation of AARO and the introduction of the UAP Transparency Act, and emphasized that overclassification has hindered public trust. He stated that the American people deserve answers on UAPs, particularly as modern technology has shifted the conversation from speculative to evidence-based. He expressed hope that today’s testimony and bipartisan support would help push forward UAP transparency, and he called for the next administration to support declassification efforts for UAP information.

SUMMARY OF WITNESS STATEMENTS

• Dr. Tim Gallaudet began his statement by recounting an encounter with UAPs during his service as the Navy’s chief meteorologist in 2015, when a pre-deployment naval exercise was disrupted by unexplained aerial objects. Despite raising safety concerns, he observed a lack of follow-up and accountability from senior officers, leading him to suspect that the information was classified within a special access program. Dr. Gallaudet expressed his concern over the secrecy surrounding UAPs, noting that critical data had not been shared with Congress, and he advocated for greater transparency and a more comprehensive approach to address UAP implications on public safety and national security. He recommended Congress establish stronger oversight, enact provisions for UAP information transparency, and pursue a government-wide approach to address UAP-related issues.

• Mr. Luis Elizondo affirmed that UAPs are real and that some advanced UAP technologies are held by the U.S. and foreign governments. He criticized excessive secrecy surrounding UAP programs and described facing intimidation and threats from within the government when advocating for transparency. Mr. Elizondo proposed that Congress and the President create a unified approach to the UAP issue, develop a national UAP strategy, and ensure a protected environment for whistleblowers. He concluded by emphasizing the need for transparency to restore public trust and stated that the American public deserves to know the truth.

• Mr. Michael Shellenberger emphasized Congress’s duty to oversee the executive branch, highlighting a growing body of evidence indicating that information on UAPs is being withheld. He shared accounts of UAP sightings and whistleblower reports, suggesting the presence of UAPs monitored through a special access program known as "Immaculate Constellation," which allegedly consolidates UAP data across various government intelligence sources. Mr. Shellenberger criticized the Defense Department’s increasing restrictions on UAP information and called for greater transparency, arguing that the American people can handle the truth about UAPs.

• Mr. Michael Gold emphasized the importance of scientific inquiry free from stigma. He noted that members of NASA’s UAP study team faced ridicule, which he argued hinders data collection and research. Gold proposed that NASA could play a crucial role in UAP research by organizing symposia, leveraging existing safety reporting systems, and creating a central clearinghouse for civilian UAP data. Mr. Gold stressed that UAP research could drive scientific breakthroughs, urging a fearless approach to collecting and analyzing UAP data.

SUMMARY OF Q and A

• Chairwoman Mace questioned Dr. Tim Gallaudet about satellite imagery from 2017 allegedly depicting a UAP, asking him for specifics on the dates and the location. Dr. Gallaudet indicated that he could only provide those details in a closed setting but noted the imagery showed a disc-shaped object referred to as "the button." He could not reveal further information in the public hearing.

  Chairwoman Mace then directed questions to Mr. Luis Elizondo, asking if UAP technologies could be from private companies or non-human intelligence. Mr. Elizondo suggested it might be a combination of both but required a closed session for further discussion. He confirmed that the government has conducted secret UAP crash retrieval programs designed to reverse-engineer alien craft but would discuss contractor involvement in a closed session. He also confirmed that some government employees had been injured by UAPs and received compensation for their injuries.

  Turning to Mr. Michael Shellenberger, Chairwoman Mace asked about the mission and funding of "Immaculate Constellation," a UAP-related special access program. Mr. Shellenberger stated its mission was to document UAPs and confirmed multiple credible sources for his report. He noted that his sources were current or former government employees and estimated that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of high-resolution visuals of UAPs held by the military and intelligence community.

  Finally, Chariwoman Mace asked Mr. Michael Gold whether the NASA independent study team was briefed on the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP). Mr. Gold replied that he flagged AAWSAP to NASA officials, but they were not briefed on it, adding that it was a significant UAP review effort that warranted further examination.

• Rep. Moskowitz questioned Mr. Michael Gold about the stigma and resistance toward studying UAPs, asking why inquiries about UAPs are often met with misinformation and retribution. Mr. Gold responded that scientific breakthroughs often face resistance, especially when they challenge established beliefs, citing historical figures like Galileo. He suggested that as awareness grows, each hearing and report serves as a step toward truth, gradually reducing the stigma associated with UAP research.

  Rep. Moskowitz then directed questions to Mr. Luis Elizondo regarding a document he had signed that restricted him from discussing UAP crash retrievals. Mr. Elizondo confirmed that he signed it within a Department of Defense facility, in the presence of a security officer, and that it limited what he could publicly discuss about crash retrievals. Mr. Elizondo described the document as a one-page form with explicit terms and stated that declining to sign it would have impacted his access to classified information.

  Finally, Rep. Moskowitz asked Dr. Tim Gallaudet for details on the USS Omaha incident involving a UAP. Dr. Gallaudet explained that the crew of the USS Omaha observed a UAP that had no visible exhaust or control surfaces, which exhibited "trans-medium" travel by entering the water from the atmosphere. He noted that this incident, along with similar cases, has been documented and remains unexplained.

• Chairman Grothman began by asking Dr. Tim Gallaudet about the "Tic Tac" UAP incident reported by Navy Commander David Fravor nearly 20 years ago. Dr. Gallaudet stated that there was no valid reason for the Department of Defense to withhold information from Congress on this incident, speculating that the reluctance might be due to concerns over exposing weaknesses in U.S. airspace monitoring. He also elaborated on his experience with the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), which tried to discredit the validity of certain UAP reports and whistleblowers.

  Chairman Grothman then questioned Mr. Luis Elizondo about a recent unidentified drone incursion over Langley Air Force Base, asking about the frequency of UAP sightings near military sites. Mr. Elizondo confirmed that UAP sightings near sensitive U.S. military installations, nuclear facilities, and Department of Energy sites have been occurring for decades, suggesting a connection between UAPs and these locations. He explained that the Department of Defense often withholds information on older UAP incidents to avoid exposing potential vulnerabilities in defense systems.

  Turning to Mr. Michael Shellenberger, Chairman Grothman inquired about the evidence supporting the existence of a highly classified UAP program called "Immaculate Constellation," as Shellenberger reported. Mr. Shellenberger confirmed that he had verified the report with multiple credible sources, who confirmed the program's name and details, including its broad scope in collecting human intelligence and UAP retrievals. When asked if he knew the country of origin for these UAPs, Shellenberger responded that he did not have that information.

• Rep. Burchett questioned Mr. Luis Elizondo about his final role in the government, which involved overseeing a White House Special Access Program. When asked to characterize UAPs, Mr. Elizondo described them as an enigma and a potential intelligence failure if they are adversarial technologies. He confirmed that classified Department of Defense materials on UAPs could be safely disclosed without compromising security, and he affirmed previous testimony by David Grusch that UAP crash retrieval programs exist without congressional oversight. He also noted the Pentagon's Public Affairs Office uses psychological operations officers to control UAP-related narratives, often with misleading information.

  Rep. Burchett then asked Dr. Tim Gallaudet about an email he received during a Navy exercise regarding near-collisions with unknown objects. Dr. Gallaudet explained that he received no response to the email, and the exercise continued without further discussion of the incident, which he believed was handled under a Special Access Program. He also described an experience relayed to him involving a submersible object seen by a nuclear submarine crew in the 1980s that exhibited unexplainable speed and maneuverability.

  When asked about his interactions with the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), Dr. Gallaudet confirmed he had met with them and noted that AARO has since reached out for another meeting, suggesting potential improvement under new leadership. He added that federal agencies’ investment in influence operations regarding UAPs indicates a vested interest, despite official claims dismissing UAPs.

• Rep. Higgins began by clarifying the authorship of a report related to UAPs, confirming with Mr. Michael Shellenberger that he knew the author, who was a current or former U.S. government employee, but that he would not disclose further details. Rep. Higgins then asked Mr. Luis Elizondo if descriptions of UAP craft, such as spheres, discs, and triangular shapes, matched his understanding of the types of observed UAPs. Mr. Elizondo confirmed that these descriptions aligned with historical reports but noted that different shapes might have different functions.

  Rep. Higgins proceeded to ask Mr. Shellenberger about biological effects associated with certain UAP types, including electronic malfunctions, feelings of unease, and psychological effects. Mr. Shellenberger explained that these observations were based on a large database containing various reports and raw data collected over decades. When Rep. Higgins inquired where this data was stored, Mr. Shellenberger stated that he had been informed the program was managed by the Department of Defense but housed at the White House, although he only had a single source for this information.

• Rep. Frost questioned Mr. Michael Gold on how the lack of data and stigma around UAP sightings impact research and understanding. Mr. Gold emphasized that, while NASA holds extensive archives that could contain useful UAP information, current data is inadequate, particularly because UAP sightings tend to focus around national security sites due to "sensor bias." He suggested that increased data collection, particularly from civilian and commercial sources, would improve understanding and recommended NASA’s Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS) as a tool for gathering more data.

  Rep. Frost asked about the balance between security and transparency. Mr. Gold replied that NASA is one of the most transparent organizations but noted that effective transparency requires substantial data collection. Without detailed data, he argued, it’s difficult to bring NASA fully into UAP research. Rep. Frost then inquired about the likelihood that some UAPs could result from unauthorized or experimental aircraft. Mr. Gold estimated that most UAP sightings likely stem from drones or other known technologies, but acknowledged a small percentage of unexplained phenomena, stressing the importance of specialized instruments for studying UAPs, akin to tools NASA uses to study celestial bodies.

  Rep. Frost concluded by emphasizing the need for federal efforts to ensure UAPs don’t pose threats to the public, and he expressed support for funding NASA's Artemis mission. Mr. Gold added that his company is providing cameras for Artemis, promising to capture images for Rep. Frost’s fraternity brother, the mission pilot, Phi Beta Sigma member.

• Rep. Luna asked Mr. Luis Elizondo if he could specify a country or timeframe for the first reverse-engineered UAP program. Mr. Elizondo responded that he could not discuss this in a public setting. She then turned to Dr. Tim Gallaudet, asking if any unidentified submersible objects (USOs) had ever outpaced U.S. submarines; Dr. Gallaudet confirmed that they had, citing an instance in the 1980s when a USO outperformed a submarine by "orders of magnitude." Rep. Luna also inquired about potential "hot spots" for UAP or USO activity off North America’s coast, but Dr. Gallaudet stated he lacked credible data on such locations.

  Rep. Luna asked Mr. Elizondo if UAPs might be piloted by non-human entities with a mind-body connection. Mr. Elizondo suggested that UAPs seem intelligently controlled, occasionally "anticipating" military maneuvers and exhibiting behaviors like "stalking" ships. When asked about the potential for UAPs as inter-dimensional beings, Mr. Elizondo emphasized a scientific approach, noting the extraordinary g-forces some UAPs can withstand, far beyond what human-made aircraft or the human body could tolerate. He declined to characterize UAPs as “living” but noted that scientific definitions of life continue to evolve.

  Rep. Luna further asked if panel members had encountered reports where UAPs disappeared following religious actions or beliefs. Mr. Elizondo responded that he focused on UAP performance rather than occupants. Finally, Rep. Luna questioned Mr. Michael Gold on whether advanced UAP energy technology, if acquired, could impact humanity positively or negatively. Mr. Gold affirmed that such technology could be transformative and emphasized the importance of staying competitive in national security technology to avoid being outpaced by other nations.

• Ranking Member Garcia asked the panel if they believed any part of the federal government is knowingly concealing evidence of UAPs from the public. Each panelist—Dr. Tim Gallaudet, Mr. Luis Elizondo, Mr. Michael Shellenberger, and Mr. Michael Gold—confirmed their belief that the government is indeed concealing such information. The Ranking Member then asked for their opinions on the nature of UAPs. Dr. Gallaudet suggested they represent a non-human, higher intelligence, Mr. Elizondo agreed with this assessment, and Mr. Shellenberger and Mr. Gold stated that while they were unsure, it was critical to investigate further.

  The Ranking Member also discussed the importance of civilian pilots being able to report UAP sightings and asked Dr. Gallaudet to explain the significance of such reporting. Dr. Gallaudet emphasized that civilian reporting could improve aviation safety and reduce stigma, facilitating better understanding and research on UAPs. The Ranking Member highlighted the bipartisan support for the Safe Airspace for Americans Act, which aims to make UAP reporting safer for civilian pilots.

  Turning to Mr. Gold, The Ranking Member inquired about NASA’s Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS) and its role in the Safe Airspace for Americans Act. Mr. Gold explained that ASRS is a trusted, established system ideal for collecting UAP data cost-effectively while minimizing stigma. Finally, The Ranking Member noted his efforts to push for the UAP Disclosure Act, a bipartisan initiative modeled on the JFK Records Collection Act, and asked Dr. Gallaudet to explain its national security importance. Dr. Gallaudet affirmed that the act would support transparency and UAP research, benefiting national security, public safety, and socio-economic advancements.

• Rep. Biggs questioned Dr. Tim Gallaudet about the "Go Fast" video and the mysterious disappearance of an email discussing UAP observations. Dr. Gallaudet confirmed that the email had been deleted without further discussion, as it likely contained classified information mistakenly shared at a lower classification level. Rep. Biggs then asked Mr. Luis Elizondo about excessive government secrecy surrounding UAPs, which Mr. Elizondo attributed to Cold War-era concerns and the Department of Defense's discomfort with issues that lack clear solutions.

  Rep. Biggs turned to Mr. Michael Shellenberger, asking about the credibility of a UAP report’s author, which Mr. Shellenberger confirmed was reliable. Rep. Biggs then shared two striking examples from Mr. Shellenberger’s report: one describing a large triangular UAP hovering over vessels in the Pacific Ocean and another describing metallic orbs intercepting an F-22 fighter jet. He suggested that scientific progress on UAPs is hindered by institutional resistance, referencing concepts of scientific progression being blocked.

  Mr. Michael Gold concluded by acknowledging that scientific breakthroughs often face skepticism and emphasized the importance of data collection to advance understanding of UAPs. He noted that over-classification is a broader issue across the government, not limited to UAPs, and urged Congress to address this challenge.

• Rep. Burlison questioned Mr. Luis Elizondo about whether any U.S. government branches or defense contractors possess alien technology. Mr. Elizondo responded that there is documentation suggesting materials of unknown origin were collected, though he could not confirm if they were retained due to interference by the CIA. Rep. Burlison pressed Mr. Elizondo for further details on a transfer involving Bigelow Aerospace and Lockheed Martin, which Mr. Elizondo noted was blocked, possibly due to missing authorization from the Secretary of the Air Force.

  Rep. Burlison inquired about the possibility of seeing non-human artifacts or biologics in a secure setting. Mr. Elizondo replied that such access would depend on government gatekeepers. Rep. Burlison also asked about reports of recovered biologics and whether these might include multiple types of creatures. Mr. Elizondo confirmed the existence of such reports but clarified he was not a medical expert and had not personally witnessed these samples.

  Rep. Burlison further queried whether any contact had been made with non-human entities. Mr. Elizondo explained that there had been non-verbal communication, similar to how aircraft might communicate intent through maneuvers. When asked about reverse engineering, Mr. Elizondo stated he was not authorized to discuss specifics due to security restrictions on his signed government documentation.

• Rep. Timmons questioned Mr. Luis Elizondo about the increasing frequency and boldness of UAP sightings, particularly near military installations. Mr. Elizondo acknowledged that UAPs appear to be increasingly provocative and pose air safety concerns, although it is unclear whether this trend reflects an actual rise in sightings or improved technology for detection. Rep. Timmons then asked if UAPs might be intentionally targeting military sites, and Mr. Elizondo suggested it could be both targeting and heightened monitoring capabilities around these sites, emphasizing the need to determine UAPs’ intentions as a national security concern.

  Rep. Timmons inquired if Mr. Shellenberger was familiar with the Langley Air Force Base incident. Mr. Shellenberger noted he only knew of it through the Wall Street Journal article, as did most of the American public. Dr. Tim Gallaudet shared that he learned of the incident from an article by Chris Mellon, who noted similar incursions at other military sites over the years. Rep. Timmons emphasized the public’s concern, questioning whether UAPs are foreign or non-human in origin. Dr. Gallaudet agreed, suggesting the hearing should prompt improvements in air and maritime defense.

  Finally, Rep. Timmons asked if any Pentagon task force currently investigates these incidents. Dr. Gallaudet mentioned the former UAP task force (2020–2022) led by Jay Stratton, which took a comprehensive approach, including declassification efforts and transparency measures. Rep. Timmons concluded by stressing the need for Congress to grant military and law enforcement the authority to engage with UAPs, providing clear guidelines on how to respond.

• Rep. Boebert questioned Mr. Shellenberger about the issue of over-classification, with Mr. Shellenberger agreeing it exists while noting necessary national security classifications. Rep. Boebert then asked the panel if they knew of any recovered non-human materials connected to bioscience programs, to which all responded they were unaware. She also mentioned rumors of a DoD project involving human genetics and non-human material; all witnesses denied knowledge of such a program.

  Rep. Boebert further questioned Mr. Shellenberger on whether UAPs had been encountered by the Navy in oceanic environments, which he confirmed, adding that these incidents were documented in the “Immaculate Constellation” report. Rep. Boebert probed if the Pentagon deliberately kept Congress uninformed about UAPs in U.S. waters, to which Mr. Shellenberger responded affirmatively. Rep. Boebert then asked about any observed technology of oceanic UAPs that might defy physics or engineering capabilities, and Mr. Shellenberger agreed, suggesting all such sightings appeared beyond current scientific understanding.

• Chairwoman Mace began her additional round of questioning by asking Mr. Elizondo if he had been briefed on the “Immaculate Constellation” program, to which he stated he could neither confirm nor deny its existence due to security protocols. The Chairwoman then inquired if the U.S. government or contractors collaborated with other countries, specifically China, to exchange UAP intelligence data. Mr. Elizondo replied that there were international collaborations, often within controlled intelligence frameworks, and confirmed that specific contractors handle UAP materials based on expertise, using Lockheed Martin as an example for aerospace and underwater domains.

  Turning to Dr. Gallaudet, Chairwoman Mace asked about flight safety risks posed by UAPs, with Dr. Gallaudet confirming that pilots frequently encountered UAPs, sometimes in threatening proximities. Chairwoman Mace also questioned Mr. Shellenberger on encouraging whistleblowers to come forward, to which he emphasized his commitment to protecting their identities. Her final question to the panel sought their definitions of “non-human biologics” and “non-human intelligence.” Responses varied, with Dr. Gallaudet suggesting non-human intelligence could exist throughout the universe, Mr. Elizondo describing it as a reaction requiring thought, Mr. Shellenberger stating uncertainty, and Mr. Gold mentioning the possibility of non-biological intelligence, like artificial intelligence.

• Rep. Ogles began by asking Mr. Elizondo if UAP sightings are especially common near nuclear sites. Mr. Elizondo affirmed, citing evidence of frequent UAP activity near sensitive locations like Oak Ridge, Savannah River, and Los Alamos. He explained that these sites are strategic due to their role in research and development, particularly in defense technologies, which could make them targets for surveillance.

  Rep. Ogles then questioned Dr. Gallaudet on whether UAPs pose a threat to pilots, to which Dr. Gallaudet confirmed, citing risks to Navy and commercial pilots. Rep. Ogles emphasized the need for government oversight to ensure the safety of personnel and expressed concern over the executive branch withholding information from Congress, potentially hindering legislative oversight. He concluded by highlighting the danger of UAP technology, whether domestic, foreign, or extraterrestrial, falling into enemy hands, stressing that Congress must be fully informed to protect national security.

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